OOPS!!

other blog is RIGHT HERE

goodbye

As much as I`d like to blog here its all a bit time consuming, what with life, work, study and the other blog

So goodbye. Have a nice life. I may be back.

goodbye

this blog has finally lapsed. Its impossible running two blogs with the little spare time I have so go here instead for a much better blog at least until I get some more time to do some of this stuff

Im Baaaaaack

Yep, I;'m back, may not post every day but will post as often as I can. Tell your friends to come back now, and welcome me back to the DTR blog. All is forgiven.

post passion

I've a lot of time for George Barna - well most of the time. He has done a
report on The Passion of the Christ. It's very American, of course.

"The nation’s most prolific movie viewers tend to be people under 40 years of age, Asian-Americans and homosexuals. Other groups who watch more movies that the norm included those who cohabit, atheists and agnostics, born again Christians who are neither conservative nor liberal on political matters."

The median number of movies watched by movie-viewers in the previous 12 months was 38 movies".

Another words, many US Christian movie goers are not likely to have a strong opinion on politics - and will spend more hours watching movies than attending church, exercising, reading their bibles or forming an opinion on politics (had to throw the last one in…)

Most of these movies will be seen at home. No wonder there's so many unfit brain-dead Americans if they watch movies for at least a couple of hours a week and don’t exercise - and that’s just the movies, it does not include TV programmes. But the following comment indicates who liked the movie and who thought it was irrelevant.

"As might have been expected, evangelicals were the most enthusiastic about the movie (89% said the movie was excellent) while the lowest ratings came from atheists and agnostics, homosexuals and liberal Democrats. Protestants were more likely than Catholics to give The Passion an “excellent” rating (78% versus 68%, respectively)."

I wonder how many born again Catholic homosexual liberal Democrats there are in the US. Probably not many. Evangelicals appeared to lap the movie up. I thought it was pretty good, but I wouldn’t say it was excellent. I wouldn't see it again.

Nor did we find out how successful the movie was as an evangelical tool That wasn't a question that was asked, but I think we all know the answer anyway.

Of course not.

I`ll be back soon

Now that the busy period is over I`ll be back soon,once Ive caught up with the goss in blogdom - probably within the next few days

OK?

taking a break

This blog is taking a break. Its hard building community when it is not reciprocated. So I`d rathe put my energies into something that results in community. The Christian community here in NZ is a bit weak in terms of activism and on-line community.

I have another blog which although not getting as many comments is apparently getting more readers and a bit of dialogue.
it's over here. It will have more on politics, including the civil union bill, which I will post or link on Monday ( may even do it here, too) as well as other related stuff.

What a Destiny Church service is like

Ship of Fools is a good website. They`ve recently posted a "mystery worshipper" who attended Destiny Church ( no not this one, unfortunately) and did a review. Thanks to Rachel for the heads up.

Heres a sample:

Which part of the service was like being in heaven?
Sorry, but nothing for me.

And which part was like being in... er... the other place?
Having the offering passed down my row after the pastor began praying. Presumably we were supposed to be joining him in prayer, but nothing gets in the way of the offering.

This is the top Destiny church – the one that broadcasts on TV2.The church where the ushers wear suits ands have earpieces. The Church whose pastor, Brian Tamaki, was profiled in The NZ Herald last year. The same Brian Tamaki who has his own TV show. The one with the link to the new political party Destiny NZ that was profiled in the Sunday Star Times last weekend.

Anyone been to a Destiny service and would like to comment?

From the Herald

Bishop Vercoe is obviously an idealist - as he should be as a churchman of profound faith and devotion. But if his vision is a world without homosexuality, he might as well have a vision of a world without adultery and fornication, without cancer or heart disease, without poverty or violence.
For they are all part of the human condition, and have been since mankind was created (or dropped out of the trees, if you'd rather) and will be until Christ comes again.
Since Christianity is essentially a religion of virtue and morality, it seems strange that the churches which have made the acceptance of homosexuals into their communions such a controversial matter appear to be unconcerned about the adulterers and fornicators who sit in their pews (and preach in their pulpits) and who would surely outnumber homosexuals by a hefty margin.

More here

He's got a good point, that not too many church leaders are prepared to speak about.

UPDATE the Archbishop has written a letter to the Herald

"I am disappointed that my views have come across in your paper as extremist anti-gay when I am not. Nor did I use the word 'abomination' to describe gay people". Have a read.

Archbishop and gays

I spoke with Archbishop Vercoe today. He doesn't agree with the Herald story. DOesn't like it at all. His comments and a bit of a commentary are over here

Anglican bishops get gongs

l
The first woman in the world to lead an Anglican diocese, Penny Jamieson, has topped the Queens Birthday honors list. The new leader of the Anglican Church in New Zealand, Archbiship Whakahuihui Vercoe, refused to attend her ordination. Jamieson got a Distinguished Companion of the Order of Merit, which is equivalent of a knighthood.

Meanwhile, Author Witi Ihimaera, who also got a similar gong for, among other things, writing the novel Whale Rider has called for the resignation of Archbishop Vercoe, following his statements released during the weekend about a backlash against gays. Ihimaera is both Maori and gay.

Auckland Anglican bishop Richard Randerson also got a gong - a companion of the NZ Order of Merit. He has also jumped into the fray over the "world without gays" story in the Herald, saying that Maori find homosexuality "culturally difficult".

It was the first time since 2001 that
the clergy has topped the honors list here, although that was New Years Honours list.

The only member of the clergy to ever recieve New Zealand's top honour - the Order of New Zealand,(ONZ) limited to 20 living people - is Cardinal Thomas Williams, in 2000. The Rt Rev Te Whakahuihui Vercoe MBE also got a gong that year. He got the New Zealand Order of Merit (NZOM) which was also not awarded this year. In 1999 the (then) head of the Anglican Church was gonged, although he did not get a knighthood. Knighthoods were scrapped the following year.

Postmodern v progressive

Some people in emergent circles seem to think it is cool to be postmodern. As if it was progressive. Nobody wants to stay in the same place, people want to move on. Often it is the evangelicals, rather then the pure traditionalists that are progressive. Some of the liberals like to think they are progressive, but many of them are reacting to traditional conservatism, from whence they came. Some have chucked out bits of scripture along the way. Perhaps some emerging church people are like this. They have moved on from denominationalism - but it is more relevant where they have moved from, as opposed to where they are moving to. It's a bit like getting out of an old flat because you can't stand your flatmates. Who cares where you end up as long as it's better than the old place of residence - and a platform to move on further.

Maybe that’s why the name "emergent" was coined - what you are emerging "from" is more relevant to what you are moving "to". Sounds pretty reactionary to me. A bit like becoming a Christian just because you don’t want to go to hell.

Many see their progressiveness as just being relevant, and see that others that are not so progressive aren't as relevant to the surrounding culture.

Those in emerging church structures may see themselves as postmodern, they may see themselves as cool, and they would surely see themselves as progressive, in the moving sense.

But how progressive are they? Are emerging groups moving - or have such groups merely moved from traditionalism to somewhere else and are just as irrelevant to the surrounding culture, but more relevant to each other? Are such groups more than just extra candles, incense, labyrinths and the odd liturgy? They are still communicating in modern terms, they still want new people to sing their songs and be part of their culture.

What really makes them any different to modern churches in terms of their influence to those in the surrounding culture? Could it be that some modern churches actually do a better job.

New Maori archbishop for NZ

NZ has its first Maori archbishop He's 75. Some say he is anti-gay for his views on gays in the priesthood. He doesn`t support women priests, but has ordained women priests. We have a famale bishop in this country.

He equates women leadership with Maori protocol on Marae. Women can't speak at Marae: They shouldn`t be in church leadership.

He says, about gay priests: "I will not participate in anything that is contrary to what I believe".

So, what's he doing ordaining women priests, then?

And more:

Would he ordain a woman as a bishop? He thinks for a minute.

"Not a Maori woman. I don't think the time is right for it. It will come, but not in my lifetime."

It's no wonder the Herald says the bishop is "a mix of contradictions" But you`d think they`d at least get their headlines correct Top bishop's vision - a world without gays

That's not what the bishop said, thought or believes. Maybe a world without women bishops....

here's the news- well our version anyway

I just popped over and had a look at Canary in the Mine - John
McNeil's blog. We have a few things in common: We both run two blogs, we are both former journalists and we are also into social policy issues.

John has just sat in a High Court case here in Wellington where the judge said, in relation to TVNZ, "the news is the news and not to be tampered with". Yeah right! John points out that it is the producers and sub-editors who decide what is the news. Well in broadcast media. In the print media it is the editor and the news editor.

Politics also play a part. If a story is written in line with the editorial teams predispostions, that certainly helps.

A good example of this is the Christian paper Challenge Weekly. The paper has a diminishing readership and a bunch of reporters that write unbalanced stories criticising homosexuality, Government policy, and a few human interest stories. Occasionally their will be a hard news story that some of us have read somewhere else already. Letters to the editor are printed only if they share the editorial viewpoint.

There is a lot of good local Christian news that is waiting to be published. Hard news. Yet much of the news is written by lobbists such as the Maxim Institute, The Society for the Promotion of Community Standards, and people such as Stephen D Taylor and other writers, who have their own spin on things. So why have three paid journalists when up to half of the stories (each week) in the paper every week are not written by editorial staff? I used to write a 16-24 page paper (with six pix and up to 20 stories) on MY OWN in THREE DAYS. The other two days were layout,subbing and any immediate hard news.

New Zealand needs a decent Christian newspaper. With decent stories and thoughtful columns. New Zealand needs a religious rag that has support within the wider Christian community. A paper that reports the news without getting lots of stuff from the likes of ASSIST News.

Challenge Weekly is the only non-denominational Christian paper in New Zealand Christian retail outlets. Yet Christians are better off reading the Gay Express or listening to Radio Rhema to find out about Christian related hard news.

sharp dressed man

Maggi Dawn recently made the point that many people in the church, particularly the emerging church, wear very cool clothes. Some people like to dress up to go to church, parties, pubs/clubs etc. Maybe even shopping.

I don't. I`d rather go in my jeans and t-shirt, and if I had a choice between a club with a dress code and a grunge/techno club where everyone has dreads and smokes, I`d prefer the latter.

Just because a pastor is wearing a jacket and tie doesn't mean that a sermon is going to sound any better. If a barista at my local cafe had a haircut and wore a suit, the coffee wouldn't taste any better. He`d probably get a few strange looks, though.

Ever seen a DJ suited up? Ever had a knock on the door from a young mormon "elder" in casual comfortable clothes? For that matter ever been to a decent Christian music festival where you haven't seen a
"His pain your gain" teeshirt?

Ever been to a church where the topic in the foyer afterwards is Mrs Brown's nice new hat?

Sometimes our funky clothes can be a barrier to the poor. And who did Jesus gravitate towards? Sometimes it is those who are not so well dressed that are making a difference in the surrounding culture. Could that be because they look at clothes as a means to cover skin and keep warm as opposed to a fashion statement and a promotion of their wardrobe?

Its fun to dress up - but it can be overdone.

stealing in the name of

Salon.com has an article on Christian music, and how that Christian teens steal music through downloads too.

As if that’s surprising. Why should those in the Christian music industry be surprised, after all the Contemporary Christian Music industry is run no differently to the secular music industry. Oh, that’s right, its owned by the secular music industry who bought CCM out to make a buck. Money is the main focus for record company executives within CCM.

John Styall, (former?) CCM Magazine editor and current Gospel Music Association president says, "We went into this study wanting to learn more about our young consumers and how their faith intersects with this vital issue. We were somewhat surprised to find that it does not."

Well, what he really meant was, "We are wondering whether we were being ripped off by teenage Christians, that's more important than what our comsumers believe".

I wonder how some of the CCM musicians faith and desire for ministry intersects with the issue of making money. Not that I think there is anything wrong with making lots of money, but when you say one thing on the stage - like " I really want to serve God" and another thing to reporters, like saying " I'm in it for the money" - as one famous CCM musician you have all heard of said to me a few years back. You’ve got to ask what is the motivation among some of the musicians, let alone the recording companies. Some of these guys are a bit like musical televangelists - give the audience an hour, take the money and then immediately take off to the airport.

Don’t get me wrong, most CCM musicians I have spoken with over the years - and that's many of the ones that have toured NZ over the past 10 years or so - are sincere and want to make a difference in people's lives, not just their own pay packet. But the number of artists raking in money in the name of God, whilst sidelining ministry is increasing. Cut the pay packet and then see how many would be touring to far off places like New Zealand.

Also, I got an email from amother blogger the other day after my comments on clergy abuse. I told him I was merely addressing some issues. He replied:

i don't think you're addressing issues, i think you're taking a cheap shop(sic) at an easy target...if you want to highlight issues in relation to ministry; then tackle some real issues- burnout; empire building; money

Well, I guess I have tackled money in ministry. One day I may even tackle gossip, or accountability. Those in pastoral or high profile ministries have a greater tendency to be publicly caught out if they sin. Fact. And if clergy and CCM artists were more accountable, they would be less likely to have affairs and get involved in sexual abuse.